...with Love and Light

Personal experiences and sharings of Amarga and Svabhavo in an interview with an Russian esoteric magazine Infopotok about love and relating, the life with Osho and the workshop: The meeting of Shiva and Shakti, happening in St. Petersburg in March 2012

 Yulia: About fate and karma, how they influence on relations between man and woman, on choice of a partner?

There are several theories explaining why we fall in love with certain people.

Let’s start with most simple of them. For instance, the sound of the voice and appearance of our beloved are similar to those of our farther (mother) or (there is even such an opinion) of the occasion who was there in the moment of our birth.

Or smell of pheromones attracts us to each other (like animal male and female species), additionally we rely on healthy and good-looking appearance, which guarantee us next generations with the same qualities.

However, people often choose partners who are not that beautiful and healthy which contests this theory.

There is also a theory that we are irresistibly attracted to people whose stars’ and planets’ picture matches with ours (astrological aspect), notably in a fatal way which means that there is pathological dependence and this dependence does not maintain but impedes spiritual growth of partners.

Amarga: It depends on the state of consciousness of a person to which person we are attracted to. We can see it in an astrological chart and explain it through that.

We are here on earth to grow in consciousness and spirituality. Meeting with people help us to grow. Often we are blind for this growth opportunities and the relating becomes fatal and difficult. Eventually we give up or brake up and move to the next person. But if we have not learned, what existence wants us to learn, the next relating will have the same pattern.

Yulia: There is also such term in astrology – “complementary couples” - when partners match with each other astrologically and numerological as the key and the lock.

Such partners understand each other with half-word, support each other and take care of each other in all difficult situations in life, mutually expand each others’ opportunities to spiritual growth. 

Astrologists say that such couple has immense, really huge opportunities to make world become a better place ( in case they have chosen highly spiritual path).

When such people are on middle level of spiritual growth (or not enough high level) most often they are not capable to ‘recognize’ each other and to become a couple. There is no mutual attraction and they can even dislike each other on a body level.

Amarga: Yes, this is true. And it is, because we first need to grow and rise in consciousness, so that we can recognize the other as a fellow traveler.

Svabhavo and me were in the same place in the Osho ashram for many years. We never met or saw each other. Only when we both have grown through our unconscious patterns, healed our wounds and pains, we started to recognize each other. Our relating is on the spiritual level and of sharing our love and light.

Yulia: Karma theory of man’s and woman’s union in a couple explains this union by mutual attraction on the level of their thoughts background. This means that people are thinking and acting in their life in accordance with their karma experience from past lives and in accordance with their tasks on self-development, spiritual improvement in this life.

And there comes such a partner who helps us to develop ultimately such qualities, which need to be mostly elaborated (by mirroring or otherwise).

It is notable that if the lesson has not been worked out properly with one partner (the quality has not been elaborated) it will be even more difficult with the next partner and negative qualities of the person which require some work will be stronger in the partner…

One of the variants of this theory is that the people have been communicating in past lives and have not completed something (or did something wrong). Therefore, karma law is connecting them again in order to complete their tasks or to correct their mistakes… There are also some other theories but not all of them came to my mindJ.

Amarga: Life is a play and existence gives us again and again opportunities to become happy and contented. When we die, our body dies, but the emotional body with all the emotional memories is travelling to the next body. When we are in the bardo, the state of leaving the body and preparing for the next life, we again relive our life very quick and whatever we didn’t realize in our life, we take to our next life to realize it there and then. So, in a way we are continuing our life only in a different body. With the new body we again get the opportunity to resolve our problems, longings and pains.

Yulia: Where is truth in all this? Why do people get attracted to each other?

Amarga: This is a very complex question. In all of these theories there is some truth.

People get attracted to each other, because there is a certain energy between the two. Yes, it can be through the body instincts or because of astrological transits or past life karma etc. The point is, that most people are not aware what attracts them towards each other and that creates the trouble.

Svabhavo: I discovered that intelectual understanding does not bring any real change in life.

So its good to leave the theory and move more practically. It is possible to find out how certain attractions work through the body and the mind. There are many exercises and meditation techniques which can help you to open up to love. Once you are filled with love, relating becomes possible, easy and enjoyable.

Yulia: What to take as guidance when there are several aspects of cooperation simultaneously with different people? (for instance, there is strong mutual physical attraction with one person but there is no spiritual understanding, and with the other person there is spiritual kinship… …) J

Svabhavo: Life is rich, so you can live this side with this person, enjoy another side with maybe another person. It is up to you. One person cannot match all your sides. Thats why there are so many people on this planet and so many possibilities. So dare to live all your sides and your life will be fulfilled.

Yulia: Whether there are really energetic and spiritual roles in couple ‘man-woman’ or it is something which is more socially imposed?

Svabhavo: Between each combination of persons there is an energetic play going on. If you are able to live that, then you are living naturally. Many times however we are not aware of this energetic truths and are living out of habits or roles and that’s where the troubles are coming from. There is a big difference between acting as a woman or a man according to society or living out your authentic energetic quality.

Yulia: Which are real roles in couples?

Svabhavo: When you are able to trust your own Life energy you become more natural and your life becomes just flowing. It becomes more a play and then playing whatever role is simply enjoyable. If you forget the play, you become the role and then life is getting serious and more fixed.

Amarga: In short: men should live their male energy and women should live their female energy.

Yulia: What is the danger in case of their replacement?

Amarga: Then neither of the both is happy and contented.

Yulia: (question about Amarga and Svabhavo)

What  you were doing before your first visit to India?

Svabhavo: At that time I was living together with my first big love in a small apartment and working as a primary school teacher, a profession which I really loved. I had the idea to get married, have a few children and stay a teacher all my life.

Amarga: After school I finished an education at the court  where I worked for some time, then decided to finish my high school degree. I was a hippie girl, who was longing for the true love and the boy/man on my side.

Yulia: How you came to Osho?

Svabhavo: My girlfriend left me for another man and suddenly I felt this deep emptiness and loneliness. Again a deep insecurity, which I had known all my life, was there. Without the other I did not know who I was. And there was still this deep longing in me to just be myself.

Then one day while listening to a radio I heard somebody talk about Osho. And suddenly I knew: This man I need to meet. That’s how it all started changing.

Amarga: All the years from my puberty times on I had a strong inner longing for something bigger than what I experienced up to then. I was dreamy, melancholic and philosophizing a lot about life and its meaning.

At the age of 24 I met a man, who was a disciple of  Osho. We fall in love with each other and he was a sannyasin, a disciple of Osho. Through him I got introduced to the world of Osho. Very soon I fall in love with Osho’s people too. It was like coming home. Hugging, laughing, singing and dancing together,  meditating and being truthful towards each other, this lifestyle I liked very much. I had found my true family and in fact I have found my spiritual family. It was only 2 years later, that I saw Osho in America.  For me personally Osho as a person was not so important but more Osho’s people and the way of living.

Yulia: How you met with each other?

Svabhavo: During a stay in the Osho community in Poona I noticed again and again a woman ( Amarga) close to me wherever I was eating, walking or even meditating. The energy between us was really strong J and luckily I was conscious of this. She was not the usual type of woman where I would fall (!) in love with. But I trusted this energy and went to her …. and it still is so fulfilling J

Amarga: We met in Osho’s comunity in Poona. One evening we ended up sitting at the same table for dinner.

I was having my girls evening with a friend and we where looking for a free table, where we could undisturbed chat about our relationship longings and dreams.  Only one table was free, well … with a tray of food, but no owner … We sat down, and there came this man, with a big smile on his face. This man was Svabhavo.

Yulia: What was the main initiating issue for coming closer and starting close relations?

Svabhavo: Life put us together. I felt ready to relate with a woman on a mature level and she was also ready for this. So she was the right woman.

A conscious relating is a great gift.

Amarga: Svabhavo was not at all the usual type of man, I felt attracted to. And still, there was a nice and comfortable feeling to be close to him.  It took me 6 weeks before our story started. 

Yulia: Can you say that your meeting was not accidental?

Svabhavo: This meeting is for me a gift of life and luckily I could feel and receive it. So it is not accidental.

Amarga: No, it was not accidental. As I said before, I had a deep longing for love, for a partner. After my first lover from the Osho world with 24, some more relationships followed. And all had a similar pattern. We fall in love and after some time I gave up my independency and started to cling to the man. In the same time the men usually felt attracted to other women, wanted more space and freedom. And this is the story of my parents. My father was a flirter and loved the women. My mother was jealous and suffered. 

And then came one day, where I decided from deep inside, that  something needs to change in my life, that I need to stay alone to find the love inside myself, for myself.

Only when I have found that one, I will be able to find a true relating. So I stayed more than a year alone without a man. As a juicy sexy woman it was not so easy to keep the promise, as there where many opportunities in Osho’s ashram.

Then after 1 ½ years I met Svabhavo.

Yulia: And general questions again:

Is it important to a person to find his or her ‘sole-mate’ of the opposite sex or it is more important to learn to live together with any person?

Svabhavo: For me it is the most important to experience and discover who you are; to become conscious of your real nature.

So first be yourself and then you can share and relate.

Amarga: The soul mate, as I understand it now, is often misunderstood and romantazised. I have one soul mate, with whom the relating didn’t work out at all, but our souls are very close and I feel, we are coming from the same soul family.

With Svabhavo I never had the idea about soul mate. We are great companions, lovers and friends.

In my opinion, it is important to learn to love yourself first. Then you will find the partner who will enrich your life. And then you are not together out of dependency, but out of love and respect. And because you love and respect yourself, you  also love and respect your partner. For me Svabhavo feels like a fellow traveler.

Yulia: What is the connection between ‘being in the state of Love’ and love to a certain beloved?

Svabhavo: Love is the connection. When one is in the state of love everything and everyone gets  showered with this love. Sometimes a certain person can awaken Love but true Love never separates or concentrates on one person.

Amarga: Being in a state of love the love for the beloved is included. If you feel you love only your beloved, then it is rather a dependency than love.

Yulia: Can one person have several beloveds (on highly spiritual level of development)?

Svabhavo: Yes, when love happens to me I am just loving, then I am able to love different people, each in another way, each in its own moment but for me there is only one woman and that is Amarga where I feel to live with and to be with.

Amarga: I can love many people. When my heart is open, love flows to many people and to the nature and the animals, to existence itself.  Some people can have more than one lover. For me the one is enough. I am not longing for more.

Yulia: The person who is constantly in the state of Love attracts people and they want to be close to this person. There are few such people now. However, a lot of people want to gain this quality. If most people are in such state how our world will change, how our society will change? What we will receive?

Svabhavo: The ways of love are so full of surprises……so I do not know J And that makes it so wonderful. In a world of love there will be so much acceptance that it will be really difficult for problems and troubles to be there.

Amarga: In the moment our world is guided by the mind, the intellect. When most people would be in the state of love, our world would be guided by love. It would be more happy. Love is an energy and when the love vibration is ruling over the mind vibration, then I guess our whole life style would change.

Yulia: In general how difficult it is for a person to switch to the state of Universal

Love within the frames of modern state of the world and society structure?

Svabhavo: Every person is unique. Some people have a strong longing or a deep passion to discover love. For others it is less important in their life. But it is possible for everyone.

Amarga: If a person is in the state of universal love, he enjoys his life, no matter what the structure is.

Yulia: What can be done by each person (with oneself first of all)? How to make the process of transformation most efficient?

Svabhavo: Each person has its own path to go. Some go the path of love, some the way of awareness, consciousness or meditation. There are many ways. First find out which method works for you. Then keep going that way.

And it is helpful when there are friends who go the same way and you meet and share your discoveries together.

Amarga: Transformation is a highly individual matter. Transformation always starts with oneself. If other people are sensitive enough they pick up a unique quality in that person and get affected by it and eventually starting this transformational journey himself.

....

Some personal words from Amarga:

Osho and his people is the best thing what happened to me. My life is so much more rich, I can now say: I am happy, contented, I don’t feel suffering and emotional or psychological pain. I learned what love is.

In our workshops we share ourselves.

Svabhavo’s way is the way of consciousness, accepting what is, creating space inside oneself.  My way is the way of love, learning how to get from the mind into the heart, loving oneself.

Svabhavo’s way is the way of the male energy. Amarga’s way is the way of the female energy.

In our workshop: Meeting of Shiva and Shakti we explore this male and female energies. As every woman is half man, half woman, every man is half man, half woman, it is so great to discover hidden aspects inside oneself. It makes you so much richer and helps you to understand yourself so much better and as a side effect you learn and understand how your relating patterns are and maybe you can also see better how your partner works.

Amarga: I visited many workshops during the first period of my Sannyas life. There I learned to understand myself and how life works, how I functioned in my unconscious patterns.  I meditated regularly and followed the exercises we got offered in the workshops or which Osho suggested during his talks.

I worked in the Mystery School in the Osho Ashram, I learned a lot about past lives, about energies, about the mystery of love and life, about breathing etc.

Since 1992 I share this work with others, my first workshops and individual work I gave in Poona, later life brought me into the world, where I now share, what I have learned. It’s a great joy to see how people, who are on the path are growing throughout their inner journey.

Svabhavo: I travelled the path of awareness. First I had to discover trough workshops and meditations that there was a whole other world than the world of thinking. There was a body and there were many feelings. I lived and worked for many years in Osho communities, learned to work with my hands and there was such a joy in that. Working in Osho's garden relaxed my mind and slowly everything started falling in place. Each moment, each movement, each thought can be watched. So there the art of watching was discovered. And now I enjoy sharing this silent space with people.